Curse

Chocobo1 · Jun 14, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I've read the sticky but I really wanna find some more info.

Currently I Prot monk for my Guild. This isn't too bad, I do an ok job of it and obviously I could be better but I'm alright.

My real trouble is actually in HA. It is so much harder to see the field, with everyone bunched in together so tightly and so many spells going off. Everyone is generally taking damage and multiple conditions are being inflicted. I generally end up spamming my AoS on the infuse just because It's so hard to follow a Palm sin or an ES war in the middle of everything.
Protting spikes is pretty hard too, generally I can get them just because people are bad and spike too early but against good teams it'd really hard to tell where it's going to hit.

Any way to improve on it?

Loki Seiguro · Jun 14, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

What you are doing is called red baring. Its is a good tactic but like you said against good teams the spike is very clean so red baring isn't going to help much. You also make a good point of spamming AoS on infuse but you really should save it until the sin or war or w/e that kds makes a move on him or her. Since good teams will also have a mesmer or someone watching your skills and see you use AoS and wait for it to end then spike.

What you really have to do is watch the field more. Simple as that, yes it can get confusing at times but get over it. You are a monk and people want to kill you. So stay alive prot your team so they can kill people.

Tips:

1) For spikes its good to use Spirit bond on them first then worry about guardian or SoA.
2) Watch the field..for things like r-spike you can tell by the direction they face for where the spike will be. (This is hard sometimes but prot skills take 1/4 sec cast? or w/e but they are fast so pre prot as many as you can in that direction. Usually guardian and SoA can finish this seeing as SB is 15e (10e I think).
3) Use vent or teamspeak and get a mic so you can talk to your team. Tell them if you are getting pressured or if you need some backlining done. Korean way is only used if you are playing with people you know well, puging, or you are just too leet for vent and ts.
4) Know your bar well. It helps to concentrate on the screen and the field without having to look down at your bar every time.
5) Hot keys. Some monks like to put key kills on different keyboard keys. (I once knew an infuser that had infuse locked on spacebar) For prot monk I like Spirit Bond (SB), you can do it for RC or LS too.
6)Always bring weapon sets. High set, low set, shield sets, main prot staff.
7) All pvpers use minor runes. unless told otherwise. (Midliners usually carry the majors) Sup vigor is a must.

- I'm tired right now so I might write more later, or you can pm me in game and I can help you out.

<1st account

i farm baddies · Jun 14, 2009, 04:52 AM // 04:52

some random tips

-follow warriors or any frontline really and guardian/soa
-know the dmg of spells so you can spirit bond it
-if you arent pre protting you are wasting time,space, and making your infuser do more work

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 14, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

To be honest, it sounds like you need to yell at your team for being terrible. There are so many things that can be done to avert the dying process before any kind of prot even comes into play, and it sounds like none of them are being done.

Chocobo1 · Jun 14, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

To be honest, it sounds like you need to yell at your team for being terrible. There are so many things that can be done to avert the dying process before any kind of prot even comes into play, and it sounds like none of them are being done.

Mmmmm that was kinda my first thought... I do really well in GvG as Prot monk with my smart team but it seems in HA everything just turns to crap. But I do recognize there are a few things I need to improve on anyway.

I didn't realize you could hotkey skills to different buttons. This sounds really stupid, but I can only reflex hit 1-4 on my keyboard and 5-8 have to be actually clicked on. I might change them around a bit.

Also, the whole watching the battlefield I know is important, but in HA there is just so much crap going on with pets, SH, full teams running in it gets confusing. In GvG we usually split off, and so I'm just watching 3-4 people which makes it incredibly easy to follow whats going on. I'm at a loss on how to work on this except practice practice practice which is what I do.

Also, is clicking peoples names in the party window to prot them the best way to do it? Or do people hotkey numbers to keys on the keyboard? I feel like I've missed a step.

Other than that, I do most of the suggested tips (Thanks heeps :P) except watching the way people move when R-spiking. That seems really hard <_<;

Ben-A-BoO · Jun 14, 2009, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

...I can only reflex hit 1-4 on my keyboard and 5-8 have to be actually clicked on. I might change them around a bit.

Little practical remark:
Thump buttons on your mouse are a blessing imo. I use a Razer Deathadder and love those big side buttons to death for almost all professions I play ... hope that might help.

Chocobo1 · Jun 14, 2009, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Little practical remark:
Thump buttons on your mouse are a blessing imo. I use a Razer Deathadder and love those big side buttons to death for almost all professions I play ... hope that might help.

I'm using a $20 Keyboard and Mouse combo pack lol. Not really keen on buying a mouse specifically for gaming unless it's really going to improve my performance.

sarra june · Jun 14, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Yeah I use the same mouse; right where your thumb is, there's two buttons - i have skills 7&8 locked to them, and i use numbers 1-6 on the keyboard, works out pretty well. If you don't get another mouse though I'd consider your key setup. On a monk it's rough to click skills AND party members... a lot of monks choose different keys for skills 6-8 to make them easier to click. I've seen 7/8 be T/G which is awkward... or people use QWERTASDF 1-8, but I can't give up my wasd movement keys..

Anyway don't be too hard on yourself. HA is difficult to prot. What I try to remind myself of is that as a prot monk in HA your job is to preprot targeted pressure only - it is your heal monks job to heal up the aoe damage people will inevitably be taking: i.e. prot frontline with guardian/soa/aos as appropriate, and prot spikes with those skills or spirit bond if that's needed. It's not your job to throw rofs on every noob standing in an SH - that's where it becomes redbarring. Obviously you do this a little bit... like if you see your infuse monk is powerblocked or dead, and someone's gonna die. But in general you need to conserve energy and prot where you KNOW there will be the most damage - wherever their frontline and spikes hit.

Practically speaking, yes - it's hard because HA is a clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. But little things you can do to help?

*never take your eyes off the field - when i'm prot monking in HA my eyes are glued to their frontline. it's hard to get used to but you really have no business looking anywhere else most of the time. If you can simply pre-prot with guardian and soa before a wammo gets to your caster, or aos where their frontline kd's are going, you are already relieving half the pressure right there

*if it's rspike or bloodspike or something where you are having trouble catching it, target a spiker while you keep your eyes on their damage, and you will see their skill animation warm up and know when it will hit. Even if you aren't fast enough to see which direction they are pointing, you will have a better idea of which little packet of damage is the spike if you know exactly when they are hitting.

I personally went from HA to GvG instead of the other way around, but I know what you mean. For me it was a huge relief, and I felt like I was spot-on after trying to prot through the mess that is HA. I think HA Protting is great practice because I think it's harder and more demanding than gvg monking (Until you get to high end gvg of course, because 'high end' HA simply doesn't exist) Just keep at it and I think it will make you a way better monk in general ^_^ Just my $0.02 hope it helps good luck

Lux Aeterna · Jun 14, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarra june

If you can simply pre-prot with guardian and soa before a wammo gets to your caster,

Lolz why would you pre-prot a wammo?

Do sundering swords trigger SB?

Chocobo1 · Jun 15, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Lolz why would you pre-prot a wammo?

Do sundering swords trigger SB?

I hope your kidding, he said SoA and Guardian lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarra june

Yeah I use the same mouse; right where your thumb is, there's two buttons - i have skills 7&8 locked to them, and i use numbers 1-6 on the keyboard, works out pretty well. If you don't get another mouse though I'd consider your key setup. On a monk it's rough to click skills AND party members... a lot of monks choose different keys for skills 6-8 to make them easier to click. I've seen 7/8 be T/G which is awkward... or people use QWERTASDF 1-8, but I can't give up my wasd movement keys..

Anyway don't be too hard on yourself. HA is difficult to prot. What I try to remind myself of is that as a prot monk in HA your job is to preprot targeted pressure only - it is your heal monks job to heal up the aoe damage people will inevitably be taking: i.e. prot frontline with guardian/soa/aos as appropriate, and prot spikes with those skills or spirit bond if that's needed. It's not your job to throw rofs on every noob standing in an SH - that's where it becomes redbarring. Obviously you do this a little bit... like if you see your infuse monk is powerblocked or dead, and someone's gonna die. But in general you need to conserve energy and prot where you KNOW there will be the most damage - wherever their frontline and spikes hit.

Practically speaking, yes - it's hard because HA is a clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. But little things you can do to help?

*never take your eyes off the field - when i'm prot monking in HA my eyes are glued to their frontline. it's hard to get used to but you really have no business looking anywhere else most of the time. If you can simply pre-prot with guardian and soa before a wammo gets to your caster, or aos where their frontline kd's are going, you are already relieving half the pressure right there

*if it's rspike or bloodspike or something where you are having trouble catching it, target a spiker while you keep your eyes on their damage, and you will see their skill animation warm up and know when it will hit. Even if you aren't fast enough to see which direction they are pointing, you will have a better idea of which little packet of damage is the spike if you know exactly when they are hitting.

I personally went from HA to GvG instead of the other way around, but I know what you mean. For me it was a huge relief, and I felt like I was spot-on after trying to prot through the mess that is HA. I think HA Protting is great practice because I think it's harder and more demanding than gvg monking (Until you get to high end gvg of course, because 'high end' HA simply doesn't exist) Just keep at it and I think it will make you a way better monk in general ^_^ Just my $0.02 hope it helps good luck :)

Ty for writing that, I try my best to keep my eyes on the frontline and I try to follow them, AoSing and Guardianing and SoAing whatever they hit. But during the battle I always seem to get lost and it's really hard to recover from it, because if they don't suck then they jump from target to target. Seeing them through everything is like D:!.

Also, protting vs Bspike doesn't work :(, but I'm amazed people can tell the way rangers are going to shoot. Even though the most basic rule is don't ball up, most of the teams I'm with manage to do it. Then of course, I get blamed for not protting or whatever T_T;.

Also, how do you manage to switch shields easily? With only 4 weapon switchs avaliable, its pretty painful to bring up the invent and switch to a shield just like that. I don't know how people manage it : (.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 15, 2009, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I'm afraid to say this but your monking depends alot on your team. If they don't help you - don't spread out, move in AoE, don't disrupt the spike. Then sometimes there isn't really alot you can do.

I had this problem before, i'd blame myself for everything till some people said you're blaming yourself too much, it's also about the team. Like you can make mistakes but it's not always your fault.

If you're prot monking for pugs, don't- please just do yourself a favor - play with guildies.

As for swapping shields in HA i just look at the team and see the predominant damage type (i.e. fire against mathway - lightning against rtl), don't switch during battle you should be watching the game.

Also against rangerspike ask your ele (if you're playing balanced) to kill favorable winds, it slows down the spikes and makes it easier to stop for both you and infuse. Also if in doubt - prot the most likely target, it's better than doing nothing.

Chocobo1 · Jun 15, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

I'm afraid to say this but your monking depends alot on your team. If they don't help you - don't spread out, move in AoE, don't disrupt the spike. Then sometimes there isn't really alot you can do.

I had this problem before, i'd blame myself for everything till some people said you're blaming yourself too much, it's also about the team. Like you can make mistakes but it's not always your fault.

If you're prot monking for pugs, don't- please just do yourself a favor - play with guildies.

As for swapping shields in HA i just look at the team and see the predominant damage type (i.e. fire against mathway - lightning against rtl), don't switch during battle you should be watching the game.

Also against rangerspike ask your ele (if you're playing balanced) to kill favorable winds, it slows down the spikes and makes it easier to stop for both you and infuse. Also if in doubt - prot the most likely target, it's better than doing nothing.

Thanks heeps, but I'm still wondering about the sheilds thing. Most games that I obs show people just switching though heeps of different shields depending on what they are facing. There must be a way to do this?

Also, It's hard not to play with Pugs XD, I'm really confused now if it's me making the mistakes or my team lol.

Thamior Shamus · Jun 15, 2009, 11:58 AM // 11:58

It's the pugs fault. You can only prot 1 person at a time, just the heal monk can only infuse 1 person at a time. If your team wants to take a bath in SH, there fault. If they dont kite from wars, there fault. If they dont use the walls to stop r-spike, there fault again. Dont be so quick to beat yourself up when your pugging.

I recommend HAing w/ your guild and see how you prot w/ them.

sarra june · Jun 15, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Ty for writing that, I try my best to keep my eyes on the frontline and I try to follow them, AoSing and Guardianing and SoAing whatever they hit. But during the battle I always seem to get lost and it's really hard to recover from it, because if they don't suck then they jump from target to target. Seeing them through everything is like D:!.

This is just practice. Nobody's perfect but as long as you keep focusing on their frontline it will be easier and easier to keep track of them. Little tricks I use to help make it easier to see are memorizing the names of their frontline, so when I hit 'alt' i can pick them up real fast... simply scanning names for the numbers they are on (usually the (1) and (2) or w/e)... making a mental note of which color they will be - it sounds silly but if you have in your head: "red #1 and #2" they will be easier to pick out of a crowd... plus sometimes I just look for a red character chasing a blue character - sounds silly but it's often very obvious to see, and voila there's your wammo. and also you should always think where they would, tactically, want to be going - usually it will be your backline, or something in particular that they need to shut down... like an annoying bsurge, or a lingering curse that is doing too much pressure. In this case, if I really can't see, sometimes I will just double-click to run to that person for a moment, while I look around and see who their frontline is training. Also keep in mind that if you are working with the same heal monk you can have him watch one frontline while you watch another. It's often hard to watch both at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Also, protting vs Bspike doesn't work

Yeah, I change my bar for basically every build we run but I often have aegis, which is a perfect bspike prot

I also use a +45/-2 damage while enchanted shield. There is a para green that does this ^_^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

but I'm amazed people can tell the way rangers are going to shoot. Even though the most basic rule is don't ball up, most of the teams I'm with manage to do it. Then of course, I get blamed for not protting or whatever T_T;.

Seeing the way rangers shoot is just practice, imo. It sounds very fancy but once you're in the habit of watching enemy damage, I sometimes just find myself standing behind a ranger, or zoomed in on him, and it will be obvious who he is pointing at. Vs rspike your team ought to be hiding behind obstacles or positioned well enough that it shouldnt be too hard to see. Also: YELL AT THEM when they ball up. I used to hate protting for the crap I'd take from people when the whole party takes so much damage - but usually, if everyone is taking heavy pressure, it means your midline is not shutting anything down, and they are all standing in aoe/eating every lingering curse. Don't take the blame and apologize. There's only so much a monk can outheal! The more I played with better teams, the more obvious it became to me when the rest of the team wasn't doing their job. When every bar is purple all game, or you see multiple people eating dev hammer, or finishing their casting despite SH, etc the more obvious it will be when people are taking too much damage or not shutting down enough damage... and you should be the one complaining about it, not taking crap from them! Now, if every sin gets his full combo off.... that my friend is your fault XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Also, how do you manage to switch shields easily? With only 4 weapon switchs avaliable, its pretty painful to bring up the invent and switch to a shield just like that. I don't know how people manage it : (.

Well for the most part I scan their team and swap to the appropriate weap set before we engage. But sometimes I will start being trained by one type of damage in particular and it seems worthwhile to swap. When I do this, I just hit F9. That inventory window is always on the far left for me, out of my view, and i more or less keep my shield set/spear set organized. So I will equip say a +7vphysical spear and a blunt shield if a hammer war is on my nuts all game. Sometimes vs. IWAY I even used an enchanting spear on my defensive set so I could stay on shield vs the war on me all game..

Snow Bunny · Jun 15, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Most warriors in HA are terrible and will train a target before spiking it. If you get a proper SoA on the target right before the spike their spike damage will be cut by about 2/3, which is pretty damn enormous.

Make sure your teammates aren't standing in AoE, and if they're midline casters, using the terrain to their advantage. As a monk, it's pretty helpful sometimes to attempt to get their mesmer to overextend, which means he'll get raped. The thing is that balanced spike relies on frontline. As a monk, you have to be able to keep up to 4 targets in your head, considering 2 frontline per team in a 1v1v1. In actuality, it's not that hard. In a 1v1, just keep tabs on their frontline, and spread your SoAs and Rofs around as necessary to eat up the myriad aoe that's going to hit.

But if there's that much damage hitting anyone it's because your team has horrible placement.

I like protting against spikes more than I do with pressure, because you can micro your team much more easily against a spike.

If it's iway, just keep prots on the trained target...if they're not focus firing they should be able to kill.

Michael805 · Jun 15, 2009, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Most warriors in HA are terrible and will train a target before spiking it. If you get a proper SoA on the target right before the spike their spike damage will be cut by about 2/3, which is pretty damn enormous.

I've found the exact opposite about bad warriors, actually.
Normally they will call something half way across the map and spend 30 minutes running towards it, so it's pretty easy to see where the spike is going. This is especially true with hammer warriors what will sit in their shield/spear until they get adrenaline, then switch to hammer and run straight to the target they're going to spike. So as long as your team isn't stacked on top of each other it's pretty easy.
Good hammer warriors know when to spear/shield properly and fake spike, making it possible for them to make a spike just look like adrenaline building pressure, then drop the guy.

Really it's about figuring out the other teams habits and using them to your advantage.

sarra june · Jun 15, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

I've found the exact opposite about bad warriors, actually.
Normally they will call something half way across the map and spend 30 minutes running towards it, so it's pretty easy to see where the spike is going.

That's exactly what he said... read closely

Michael805 · Jun 15, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarra june

That's exactly what he said... read closely

Generally I refer to "training" as actually hitting something, not just running towards your target.

Loki Seiguro · Jun 16, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

No "ty" for my tips? Oh well.

Going back to what you said about hot keying your team members. It can be very helpful but also might cause problems if you aren't used to it. For example I play a lot of games and the movement is always WASD. I won't play a game that doesn't let me change the movement keys to this.

My key set up it some thing like this.

Movement: WASD
Strafe: QE
Weapon Sets (F1-F4: I use mouse for this though)
Skills: 2-8 key board
Spacebar: Skill 1 (infuse or SB)
Party members going down from 1 to 8: IJNOKMPL

Thats how I play monk. I use my thumb for the keys for those of you that say those member keys are too far away.

Also I recommend playing with a minamized screen as I find it reduces the stretching of the field. Play with a camera view of max zoom out unless you are standing under a bridge, which you shouldn't because that means you are in a choke point and being nuked the %^%$ out of.

GvG and HA are very different aspects of PvP. I personally find that GvG is less stressful on monks and have less of a damage out put and more defense. Like you said it is usually a split team so you take less dmg and have to prot or heal less.

I'd go with the sugesstions of going out to the PvE versions of PvP and practicing there. (Talk about chaos!) Or PuG a lot in PvE missions and watch the wars and sins run in and die.

Edit: Missed this part

Quote:

Also, protting vs Bspike doesn't work

, but I'm amazed people can tell the way rangers are going to shoot. Even though the most basic rule is don't ball up, most of the teams I'm with manage to do it. Then of course, I get blamed for not protting or whatever T_T;.

It doesn't work know but a good infuse monk knows to use Dwayna's Kiss. Read the description on it if you need. Basically it heals more for enchantments and hexes, and what do you have? Enchants. Now all you have to hope is that your team deals enough DPS to wipe them first.

Quote:

Also, how do you manage to switch shields easily? With only 4 weapon switchs avaliable, its pretty painful to bring up the invent and switch to a shield just like that. I don't know how people manage it : (.

Yeah very hard and annoying. Here is want everyone should have. 4 sets of weapons. For prot your main is a staff, so the other 2 or 3 is either 1 high set and 2 shield sets or all 3 shield sets. Standard shield sets are Fire, Piercing and your choice (some like the -5 20%, slashing, blunt) and also Cold and Lightning modded ones.

Most teams will send on person in the UW as all the other maps you can basically see the other team, to the left corner or right corner to check the other team. you can then change the sets to fit the battle right there.

*For balanced fire set is key as Rodgorts does the most dmg most of the time. Don't stand in aoe so only change when spike is coming and usually you'll know when since a big war flies towards you.
* For mathway main staff or fire set, keep SB and Aos up at all times. and SoA
* for RTL lightning shield defenitly since they will kd you unless you have a pnh with AoS for you.
*Lichway: cold shield, also since this is one of the ezist spikes to see coming not that hard to port and most prot monks have pdrain so use it on a nec and the spike drops right there. guardian up on you or infuse so minions don't kill you. (Thats an embarressment) and channel tank them.
*R-Spike: to see who the ranger is spiking takes practice but what helps is like I said before try standing near one (not too close since the arrow will hit you faster) and watch.
*Rit Spike: too ez since they use spirit rift for godsake.
* Cotigion: LS is your friend...or better yet RC but it hurts when u get hit.

Michael805 · Jun 16, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro

Movement: WASD
Strafe: QE

Just a tip to save yourself some keys, and have easier to reach skill keys: Set strafe as A and D, and set Q and E to something else. You should be mouse turning 99% of the time anyway, so it shouldn't do anything but help you.